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February 2002 : Michael is on the cover of the March issue of VIBE magazine with an exclusive interview & photoshoot that took place in December 2001 at Neverland.

I first met Michael Jackson some 33 years ago when Diana Ross introduced the Jackson 5 — then a brand-new Motown act — to 350 music and media folk at the Daisy Club in Beverly Hills. My husband, Ken, and I were then publishing Soul, one of the first national black-entertainment newsmagazines.

Ten year old Michael already knew how to charm a crowd. Acknowledging Diana’s support, he said, “After singing for four years and not becoming a star, I thought I would never be discovered — this is, until Miss Ross came along to save my career.”

Just four months later, the Jackson 5’s first single, ‘I Want You Back’, soared to the top of the Billboard Hot 100 charts, followed two months later by ‘ABC’. Thousands of letters from across the country poured into our mailbox. Responding to the Jackson’s first tour, one reader wrote: “Those youngsters performed in a manner that could be harmful to one’s health. The heart can only stand so much soul, and their performance was definately an overdose.”

Over the next decade, Soul kept up with the Jackson family as a guest at parties, weddings, and concerts. We were also regular visitors to the family home, where Michael — soft-spoken, polite, curious, and quiet — was usually off by himself, drawing or playing with his snakes and other pets, while his older brothers, cousins and visitors played basketball. But when Soul stopped publishing in 1980, I lost touch with the family.

And then Michael became a pop-culture superstar, changing the face of music, dance, fashion, and music video with hit after hit. He was idolized and chased by fans and media wherever he went. He took an art form, refined and packaged it, and became an international icon. The American Music Awards recently named him the Artist of the Century. When it comes to the King of Pop, the world is insatiable.

You can tell a lot about someone by the people who work for him. Arriving at Michael’s 2700-acre Neverland Valley Ranch in Los Olivos, Calif., north of Santa Barbara, I’m greeted by some of the 70-odd members of Michael’s exceedingly friendly staff, which helps the self-proclaimed King of Pop maintain the comples and welcomes busloads of visitors a year, mostly kids who suffer terminal illnesses.

Dressed in black slacks, white socks, black loafers, and a soft yellow shirt, Michael greets me with a warm smile hello and a big hug. He then excuses himself to see about his son, Prince, 5, and daughter Paris, 3, who have just returned from a long walk and are excitedly chattering to their dad about their day.
The governess, who closely resembles Michael’s mother, Katherine, suggests I have a brief look around the ranch before dark. So I take off in a battery-powered golf cart, while Michael spends some time with his babies.

I discover an amusement park, playground, train station, arcade, swiming pool, Jacuzzi, bumper-car tent, and various areas where anumals roam free. I spot a llama, a parrot, a cheetah, a pony, and several deer.
Michael is ready to talk when I return 45 minutes later. I’ve brought along a bound volume of Soul, and he looks at the old photographs and laughs at himself, his brothers and a picture of Diana Ross. “Do you remember interviewing me when I was little?” he asks, reminding me of the time Soul talked to him through his ‘interpreter’, Janet. “It wasn’t a game, it was real,” he says. “I felt afraid. I felt that if my sister was there, the person would go easier on me.”

Often very animated, Michael goes from a whisper to raucous laughter in a split second. The only matter that he refuses to address is his plastic surgery. “That’s a stupid question,” he says. “That’s one reason I didn’t do interviews for years.”

At a time when stars routinely boast about their Bentleys and blingbling, Michael is singularly modest. He brushes off a question about his financial health — there have been recent reports of trouble — saying only, “I’m taken care of fine.” Michael makes money when he sleeps. He owns half of Sony/ATV Music Publishing, which includes most of the Beatles catalog as well as songs by Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, Miles Davis, Babyface, and Elvis.

At 43, Michael is indisputably back. ‘Invincible’, his first album in four years, was No. 1 on the Billboard 200 chart. His two sold-out tribute shows at Madison Square Garden last September (just before the terrorist attacks) were later aired as a CBS special watched by more than 25.7 million viewers, making it that network’s highest-rated music special of all time.

As we resume the conversation that began so many years ago, I discover that, in spite of all the flash and tumult of Michael’s time in the spotlight, he’s remarkable unchanged still caring, inquisitive, and sensitive.

Jones: How is it to be competing for sales with the likes of ’N Sync and Britney Spears, children who were basically born at the height of your fame?

Michael: It’s a rarity. I had No. 1 records in 1969 and ’70, and still entered the charts in 2001 at No. 1. I don’t think any other artist has that range. It’s a great honor. I’m happy, I don’t know what else to say. I’m glad people accept what I do.

Jones: What are your thoughts on the current state of R&B?

Michael: I don’t categorize music. Music is music. They changed the word R&B to rock n’ roll. It was always been, from Fats Domino to Little Richard to Chuck Berry. How can we discriminate? Its what it is — great music, you know.

Jones: Are you feeling hip hop?

Michael: I like a lot of it, a lot of it. I like the music. I don’t like the dancing that much. It looks like they’re doing aerobics.

Jones: How did you decide to feature Biggie Smalls on ‘Unbreakable’, off ‘Invincible’?

Michael: It wasn’t my idea, actually. It was Rodney Jerkins’, one of the writer/producers working on the album. It was my idea to put a rap part on the song, and he said, “I know just the perfect on — Biggie.” He put it in, and it worked perfectly.

Jones: Why did you choose Jay-Z for the remix of the first single, ‘You Rock My World’?

Michael: He’s hip, the new thing, and he’s with the kids today. They like his work. He’s tapped into the nerve of popular culture. It just made good sense.

Jones: What was it like for you to appear at New York’s Hot 97 Summer Jam concert as Jay-Z’s guest?

Michael: I just showed up and gave him a hug. There was a tumultuous explosion of applause and stomping, a lovely, lovely welcome, and I was happy about that. It was a great feeling — the love, the love.

Jones: Does it bother you to see people emulate you, such as Usher, Sisqo, Ginuwine, and even Destiny’s Child?

Michael: I don’t mind it at all. These are artists who grew up with my music. When you grow up listening to somebody you admire, you tend to become them. You want to look like them, to dress like them. When I was little, I was James Brown, I was Sammy Davis Jr., so I understand. It’s a compliment.

Jones: Did you know that you were creating timeless classics when you were recording ‘Thriller’ and ‘Off the Wall’?

Michael: Yes, not to be arrogant, but yes. Because I know great material when I hear it, and meoldically and sonically and musically, it’s so moving. They keep the promise.

Jones: Do you feel there’s a greater acceptance of black artists these days?

Michael: I think people have always admired black music since the beginning of time, if you want to go back to Negro spirituals. Today, the market is just accepting of the fact that that’s the sound. From Britney to ’N Sync, they’re all doing the R&B thing. Even Barry Gibb of the Bee Gees he always tells me [immitating a British accent], “Man, we do R&B.” I say, Barry, I don’t categorize it, but it’s great music. I understand where he’s coming from. I love great music — it has no color, it has no boundaries.

Jones: You seem to be enjoying life as a single parent.

Michael: I never had so much fun in all my life. That’s the truth. Beacause I’m this big kid, and now I get to see the world through the eyes of the really young ones. I learn more from them than they learn from me. I’m constantly trying things and testing things on them to see what works and what doesn’t. Children are always the best judges to monitor something. If you can get the kids, you’ve got it. That’s why Harry Potter is so successful — it’s a family-oriented movie. You can’t go wrong there. We want a wide demographic, and that’s why I try not to say things in my lyrics that offend parents. I don’t want to be like that. We weren’t raised to be like that. Mother and Joseph [Michael’s father] wouldn’t say stuff like that.

Jones: What do Prince and Paris listen to?

Michael: They listen to all of my music, and they love classical, which plays all around the ranch. They like any good dance music.

Jones: How would you feel about your children becoming pop icons, based upon your experience?

Michael: I don’t know how they would handle that. It would be tough. I really don’t know. It’s hard, since most of the children of celebrities end up becoming self-destructive because they can’t live up to the talent of the parent. People used to always say to Fred Astaire Jr., “Can you dance?” And he couldn’t. He didn’t have any rhythm, but his father was this genius dancer. It doesn’t mean that it has to be passed on. I always tell my children, You don’t have to sing, you don’t have to dance. Be who you want to be, as long as you’re not hurting anybody. That’s the main thing.

Jones: Which artists — past and present — inspire you?

Michael: Stevie Wonder is a musical prophet. All of the early Motown. All the Beatles. I’m crazy about Sammy Davis Jr., Charlie Chaplin, Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Bill ‘Bojangles’ Robinson — the real entertainers, the real thing, not just gimmicks, showstoppers. When James Brown was with the Famous Flames, it was unbelievable. There are so many wonderful singers — Whitney Houston, Barbra Streisand, Johnny Mathis. Real stylists. You hear one line, and you know who it is. Nat ‘King’ Cole, great stuff. Sam Cooke — they are all ridiculous.

Jones: How involved were you in selecting the artists to perform in your 30th anniversary special?

Michael: I wasn’t involved at all.

Jones: How were you able to let go of something so big and so special?

Michael: Trust.

Jones: What was your experience on September 11?

Michael: I was in New York [after performing at Madison Square Garden on September 7 and 10], and I got a call from friends in Saudi Arabia that America was being attacked. I turned on the news and saw the Twin Towers coming down, and I said, Oh my God. I screamed down the hotel hallway to our people, Everybody get out, let’s leave now! Marlon Brando was on one end, our security was on the other end. We were all up there, but Elizabeth Taylor was at another hotel. We all got out of there as quickly as we could. We jumped in the car, but there were these girls who had been at the show the night before, and they were banging on the windows, running down the street screaming. Fans are so loyal. We hid in New Jersey. It was unbelievable — I was scared to death.

Jones: On another tip altogether, what do you do for recreation?

Michael: I like water-balloon fights. We have a water-balloon fort here, and we have a red team and a blue team. We have slings and cannons, and you are drenched by the time the game is over. There’s a timer, and whoever gets the most points is the winner. If I’m going to do some kind of sport, I have to laugh. I don’t do anything like basketball or golf. Basketball is very competitive, and so is tennis; they make you angry. I’m not into that. It should be therapeutic. I also like to go to amusement parks, hang out with animals, things like that.

Jones: Do you have a fantasy of something that you’d like to see in your lifetime?

Michael: I would like to see an international children’s holiday to honor our children, because the family bond has been broken. There’s a Mother’s Day, and there’s a Father’s Day, but there’s no children’s day. It would mean a lot. It really would. World peace. I hope that our next generation will get to see a peaceful world, not the way things are going now.

Jones: Has singing ever stopped being fun and become work?

Michael: It’s always been fun. Unless I get physically sick, it’s always fun. I still love it.

Jones: Many of us see you as a historic figure, an innovator who has set a standard that still exists in music. Where does Michael Jackson go from here?

Michael: Thank you, thank you. I have a deep love for film and I want to pioneer and innovate in the medium of film — to write and direct and produce movies, to bring incredible entertainment.

Jones: What kinds of movies? Are you looking at scripts?

Michael: Yes, but nothing has been finalized yet.

Jones: Are you ever lonely?

Michael: Of course. If I’m onstage, I’m fine there. But you can have a house full of people and still be lonely from within. I’m not complaining, because I think it’s a good thing for my work.

Jones: Tell me about the inspiration for ‘Speechless’. It’s very loving.

Michael: You’ll be surprised. I was with these kids in Germany, and we had a big water-balloon fight — I’m serious — and I was so happy after the fight that I ran upstairs in their house and wrote ‘Speechless’. Fun inspires me. I hate to say that, because it’s such a romantic song. But it was the fight that did it. I was happy, and I wrote it in it’s entirety right there. I felt it would be good enough for the album. Out of the bliss comes magic, wonderment, and creativity.

Jones: Do you collect anything?

Michael: I like anything to do with Shirley Temple, the Little Rascals, and the Three Stooges. I love Curly. I love him so much that I did a book on him. I got a hold of his daughter, and we wrote the book together.

Jones: Is there anything that you would like to say to VIBE readers?

Michael: I love Quincy Jones. I really do. And also, I want to tell the readers not to judge a person by what they hear, or even what they read, unless they hear it from the person himself. There is so much tabloid sensationalism. Don’t fall prey to it, it’s ugly. I’d like to take all the tabloids and burn them. I want you to print that! Some of them try to diguise themselves, but they are still the tabloids.

Jones: Finally, how do you channel your creativity?

Michael: I don’t force it, I let nature take its course. I don’t sit at the piano and think, I’m going to write the greatest song of all time. It doesn’t happen. It has to be given to you. I believe it’s already up there before you are born, and then it drops right into your lap. It’s the most spiritual thing in the world. When it comes, it comes with all the accompaniments, the strings, the bass, the drums, the lyrics, and you’re just the medium through which it comes, the channel. Sometimes I feel guilty putting my name on songs — written by Michael Jackson — because it’s as if the heavens have done it already. Like Michelangelo would have this huge piece of marble from the quaries of Italy, and he’d say, “Inside is a sleeping form.” He takes a hammer and chisel, and he’s just freeing it. It’s already in there. It’s already there.

June 01, 2002 : Michael gives an interview to Gold Magazine. In the interview he talks about a new movie project named “Wolfed”

Michael Jackson is the ‘King of Pop’, the man who made the biggest-selling album in history; a man whose dance routines and tunes have entranced people in every corner of the globe, from Johannesburg to Jakarta, from London to L.A.

But he is also an enigma. A child star with his siblings in the Jackson Five, he comes from an immensely talented family and, as youngest son [Randy is younger ;-)], carved for himself the most successful solo career of all of them. He is one of the few world-famous children who have gone on to become world-famous adults; and now he is reinventing himself again, as a film star.

Despite his fame, despite the fact that he has been performing, creating and improvising almost since he was old enough to walk, Jackson is shy of publicity. He may have hordes of fans and photographers surrounding him whenever he steps out in public, but he is an intensely private man who lives with his family on his fairy-tale Neverland ranch in California. In this rare interview, he talks candidly to Magdalena, the ‘Gold Girl’, about fame, the burden of his childhood stardom, his view on the media, and his future in film.

Magdalena: Do you most see yourself as a musician, an entertainer or an entrepreneur?

Michael: Probably all of the above, because I love entertaining and I always will love entertaining. I love becoming a slave to rhythm. Because dancing is about interpreting the sounds and accompaniments of the orchestra. You know, you become the sound, you become the bass, you become whatever you hear, and you do it bodily. But I try not to get so caught up in it all that you don’t think about your future. So many great entertainers have just been taken in the past, and they ended up lonely, sad and broken. I’ve always said to myself, I never want to be that way and I’m going to try my hardest to learn about the business side, support myself, invest my money, save. Who knows what tomorrow brings? You want to be protected financially so you can support yourself.

Magdalena: Would you like to be remembered as a great entertainer?

Michael: I love movies and I love art — and an architect is an entertainer, the guy who builds a rollercoaster is an entertainer. He knows where to build the slopes, and the big anticipation when you go up… He makes you go, “Oh my God!” when you get to the top before you come down. It’s just the same as structuring a show or a dance.

Magdalena: Does it ever become a burden to be one of the most recognized stars in the world?

Michael: There’s nowhere in the world I can actually go and have privacy. The thing that hurts the most is the fact that your privacy is taken away from you. To use the silly expression, you live in a fishbowl, but it’s true. I do disguises… People know them all, it’s very hard, very hard.

Magdalena: What kind of disguises?

Michael: Fat suits, buck teeth, glasses, afros, prosthetics, make-up jobs, everything. Just to sit in the audience and experience it the way an audience would experience a show; I want to feel how they feel.

Magdalena: Do they find you out?

Michael: Sometimes, yes. In the beginning, no. Then they start looking me in the eyes. I put these things on and then they start looking behind the glasses… Girls are very smart, you know. You can trick a guy quicker than you can trick a girl. Women can just pick it up. They know the way you move your body, the way you walk, the way you gesture. I hear them go, “Look at the way he moves his hand”, or “Look at the way he was walking”, and I think, “Oh no.”
Magdalena: If you were invisible for a day in London, what would you do?

Michael: Oh boy. Who would I like to slap? Let me see [laughs]… I think I’d find one of the tabloid paparazzi and kick his ass, ‘Moonwalk’ style. I’d really like to knock them off one of those little scooters they ride around on, I really would, knock the cameras right out of their hands. They’re so annoying. I’d go for them first, yeah. They drive you nuts. You can’t get away from them. It’s terrible.

Magdalena: Who has inspired you the most professionally, and who do you relate to?

Michael: Probably Walt Disney; because when I was little I grew up in an adult world. I grew up on stage. I grew up in night clubs. When I was seven, eight years old I was in nightclubs. I saw striptease girls take off all their clothes. I saw fights break out. I saw people throw up on each other. I saw adults act like pigs. That’s why to this day I hate clubs. I don’t like going to clubs — I did that already, I’ve been there. That’s why I compensate now for what I didn’t do then. So when you come to my house, you’ll see I have rides, I have a movie theatre, I have animals. I love animals — elephants and giraffes and lions and tigers and bears, all kinds of snakes. I get to do all those wonderful things that I didn’t get to do when I was little, because we didn’t have those things. We didn’t have Christmas. We didn’t have sleepovers. We didn’t have school, we had private school when we were touring. I didn’t go to a state school. We tried it for two weeks and it didn’t work. It was very difficult. It’s hard growing up a celebrity child. Very few make that transition from child star to adult star. It’s very difficult. I relate to Shirley Temple. I met her in San Francisco and I sat at her table and I cried so bad. She said, “What’s wrong Michael?” I said, “I love you. I need to be around you more.” She goes, “You’re one of us, aren’t you?” and I said “Yes, I am.” Somebody else said, “What do you mean?” and she said, “Michael knows what I mean.” And I know exactly what she meant — to have been there as a child star and to have graduated to have succeeded in making that transition to fame as an adult is very difficult. When you’re a child star people don’t want you to grow up. They want you to stay little for ever. They don’t want you to work afterwards. It’s very hard.

Magdalena: Tell me more about your interests in theme parks — what is it about them that interests you?

Michael: My favorite thing about theme parks — and I have a pretty good outlook on it because I’ve traveled the world many times over — is I love seeing people simply come together with their families and have fun. It really does bring them closer together. I go for fun, but I also go to study. I go after hours to most parks because I can’t go in the regular hours. They’re kind of like a ghost town.

Magdalena: I hear you have some ideas for a theme park in Las Vegas?

Michael: I’ve done many projects in Las Vegas, and what I think I’ve done is I’ve widened the demographic there. Because when I was a little kid — I was no more than eight years old — my brothers and I would go to Las Vegas, and at that time kids weren’t even allowed to walk on a casino floor. So we used to stay up in our rooms, bored, with nothing to do while everyone else gambled. There was only one place for kids in Vegas at the time, called ‘Circus Circus’. It was a hotel and the theme they had there was clowns. So there was a trapeze man and there were chimps doing the little unicycles. When I got older we played Vegas a lot — we performed there many, many times — and I thought about it and I said, “It’s really not fair that there’s nothing here for children,” so I started to conceive a couple of ideas for certain hotel owners. And now it’s like the family-themed vacation kingdom, it really is.

Magdalena: Who are your favorite people?

Michael: I love people who have really contributed to the pleasure and happiness of the planet and mankind, people with light — from Walt Disney to Gandhi to Edison to Martin Luther King. These are people with light, people who really cared about children, bringing families together, and love. That’s what I try to say in my music and in my songs. If you go to one of my concerts, my shows, you will see 200 000 people swaying, holding candles, saying, “We want to heal the world,” and “We love you.” I’ve seen it around the world from Russia to Germany to Poland to Africa to America. We’re all the same. People cry in the same places in the show. They get angry in the same places in the show, they get the pathos in the same places.

Magdalena: Was Fred Astaire your friend?

Michael: Yes. Fred Astaire was my neighbor. I used to see him every day when I was riding my little motorscooter. He always told me, he would always say when I was a little kid, “You’re gonna be a big star.” He told me that he thought I was an incredible entertainer and a great mover. And he always used to say, “You’re the best,” and I’d say, “No, you’re the best.” I remember the first time I did the ‘Moonwalk’. Fred called me at home. He was screaming on the phone, raving. He said it was the best performance he’d ever seen. I said, “Oh, come on.” He said, “Michael, you put them on their ass.You’re a hell of a mover. You’re a hell of a dancer.” I said, “Well, coming from you, I don’t need any awards.” Because I was nominated for an Emmy for that performance, and I didn’t get it, but it didn’t matter to me because Fred Astaire said he loved my performance, and that’s all the award I needed.

Magdalena: If you could work with anyone, alive or dead, who would that be?

Michael: If I could work with anybody it would be Charlie Chaplin, who I love so much. Also, Laurence Oliver was a genius, really.Those two guys, I think. And also the king, Brando.

Magdalena: Last year you put together a short film, ‘You Rock My World’, with the assistance of Marlon Brando. What was it like working with the master?

Michael: Brando is a good friend of mine. He’s very much like me. He doesn’t go many places. He comes to Neverland or he stays in my house in Mulholland Drive, or he goes to Tahiti. His son worked for me for more than 20 years, and his other son was in my class in private school. He’s just a giant. You see, Brando’s smart, because when he works with me he always says, “I know what buttons to push to get emotion from you.” He knows me so well. He knows how to get me ticked off, so he’ll say certain things to get me really geared up. He’s a genius. He’s a king. He’s the last of that generation. He’s a brilliant man, a lovely person. I love him and he’s my good friend.

Magdalena: You had a cameo in ‘Men In Black II’, was that fun to work on?

Michael: The ‘Men In Black’ project really was a lot of fun because I introduced myself as the new guy.

Magdalena: It was obvious from the video of ‘Thriller’ that you have a great interest in the visual arts.

Michael: Everything I do I like either to direct myself, or work closely with the director — we co-direct and come up with the ideas together. If you look at ‘Ghosts’, it says co-written by Michael Jackson and Stephen King. We wrote it on the telephone, Stephen and I — he’s a lovely guy, he’s amazing. We wrote it on the phone, just talking together.

Magdalena: Who are the figures in the movie business you most admire, and why?

Michael: I just love Robert De Niro. I think he’s such a multi-faceted actor. He can play anything from a comedian to a priest to a psychopathic killer to an idiot to a charming uncle to just anything. And of course, any of the great dancers.

Magdalena: Who would be your ideal leading lady, and why?

Michael: An actress? [laughs] You and I should do a film together. Let’s do it, I’d love that…

Magdalena: There was talk of you going to the moon to perform an authentic ‘Moonwalk’ here. Is there any truth in this?

Michael: [laughs] There is some truth in it. It’s not a rumor. I’ll just say that.

Magdalena: You outbid Paul McCartney for the Beatles archive. What was so special about it?

Michael: No, I didn’t, he didn’t bid for it. It was for sale and I liked it and I bought it, like buying a piece of art.

Magdalena: Tell me more about your passion for children’s charities. Which organizations do you support?

Michael: Well, I have a charity for kids that I created myself, called ‘Heal the World’. And whenever I do a concert or anything pertaining to entertainment, I give a certain amount to ‘Heal the World’ — you know orphanages, hospitals, kids who need a lung or a liver, we’ll find it, we’ll pay for the surgery. On tour, I do as many hospitals and orphanages as I do concerts. We go to 12-years-olds and we take boxes and boxes and boxes of toys, a bunch of Michael Jackson posters and paraphernalia. They love it.

Magdalena: How much more do you feel you want to achieve in your life?

Michael: I’m never satisfied. There are so many different avenues and so many different things that I want to do. I’ve done a lot, but I don’t think it’s enough, which is why I don’t put up any awards or anything in my house. You won’t see any awards in my house, I put them all away in storage. Because if you get caught up in that, you start to feel like, “Oh, man, I did it.” There’s so much more, so many more mountains to climb.

Magdalena: If one of your children came to you and said, “Dad, I want to be a pop star,” what’s the best advise you could give them?

Michael: The best advise that I would give them is it’s a lot of hard work, and be prepared, because it’s not all joy all the time. And that you’ve got to have rhinoceros skin, because the bigger the star, the bigger the target. The tabloid press are bastards, and you’ve got to have rhinoceros skin to deal with that kind of ignorance mentality. They do it simply to sell papers, because bad news sell, not good news. They simply make it up. If they don’t have anything, they just make it up. I’m nothing like the way the tabloids have painted me out to be, nothing. Nothing like that. They’re the ones who are crazy. They’re ignorant. I always say to my fans “Let’s have a tabloid burning. Let’s make a big mountain out of tabloids and just burn them.” The real fans who love me know that garbage isn’t true. They know. They’re smart.

Magdalena: Have you always wanted to do film? If your family had not been such successful musicians, would you have turned to it earlier in your life?

Michael: I’ve always wanted to do film, but the tours got in the way. That’s why I want to take several years off just doing film. I’d like to get six great movies behind me, and then I’ll do a little bit of touring, then I’ll do more filming.

Magdalena: What kind of ideas do you have for film?

Michael: I have ideas for film and movement and dance and things that people have never seen. I can’t wait to just surprise people. That’s why I’ve been dying to start a film production company, and I’m very excited that that’s what we’re doing with ‘Neverland Pictures’. I get to just have a clean slate and play and create and sculpt.

Magdalena: Tell me a little bit about the werewolf idea in your films, and how does it relate to video?

Michael: I haven’t read the script yet for ‘Wolfed’ — it’s one of the movies that we’re going to be making and I’m really excited about it. I’m so happy to be working with Sammy Lee. We’re doing some great projects together in film, and I’m really excited.

Magdalena: And ‘Wolfed’ will be the first film?

Michael: As of now, our schedule says that ‘Wolfed’ will be the first film. That’s going to be fun. I want it to be really scary. Rick Baker wants to do all the visual effects. He has seven Academy awards. Rick is very excited about it too — he did ‘American Werewolf in London’. He won an Oscar, and he said, “Michael, that was nothing.” That’s nothing compared to what he can do today. And he did ‘Thriller’ and he said of that, “It’s nothing.” He can go way beyond that. He did all the Eddie Murphy films, ‘Clumps and Nutty Professor’ and all that ‘Men In Black’ stuff, too. He does all that.

Magdalena: So tell me how you would like to be remembered?

Michael: How would I like to be remembered? As a person who came and brought light to the world, some escapism. Also as the ‘voice for the voiceless children’, because I love them. I’m living for the children. If it weren’t for the kids, I would throw in the towel. A baby, a child — now that’s amazing. They’re little geniuses, you know, little geniuses. They really are.

Magdalena: Do you enjoy being a father?

Michael: It’s my favorite thing. I love it. I love it. I love it.

Magdalena: The other day I saw you pick up your daughter when she was sleeping. You just picked her up, and I could see the joy in your face…

Michael: Oh, I love them. The Jacksons have a lot of kids. I have a lot of nephews and nieces. There’s a lot of us!

Magdalena: What is your relationship with your brothers and sisters?

Michael: I love my brothers and sisters. When I’m with them we laugh. It’s like a different version of yourself. We can just laugh and giggle and talk about old times. We’re not together as much as we’d like to be. We’re all busy. We’re all in show. We’re always doing something. If I’m in town, Janet’s out of town. If we’re both here, my brother’s somewhere else. Everybody’s running around, you know.

Magdalena: Are you a family man? What do you like doing with your family?

Michael: My personal family? My Children? We love just sitting together, talking, shooting the breeze. We sit by the lake. I take them for a walk every day at my house. We sit by the lake and we throw rocks in the water and we just talk.

Magdalena: What do you think is the deepest form of love someone can feel? And have you felt it?

Michael: Wow, I think that’s really a matter of opinion. Have I felt the deepest form of love? I don’t know what would be the deepest… [long pause] and interesting question… [repeats question a few times]. I love my children very, very much, and I always look in their eyes and tell them that — I think that’s the most important thing.

June 15, 2002 : Michael attends a fan-club event with Uri Geller at the Equinox nightclub in London where he speaks for the first time of his problems with Sony and his CEO Tommy Mottolla.

Anyway, I first let me say, I really don’t like to talk that much. I really don’t. I prefer performing than talking.

Let me just say this… The tradition of great performers… the tradition of great performers from — I really want you to know what I say! — from Sammy Davis Junior, to James Brown, to Jackie Wilson, to Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly. The story is usually the same though. These guys worked really hard at their craft, for the story ends the same. They are usually broken, torn and usually just sad, because the companies take advantage of them, they really do.

And… Sony…Sony… Being the artist that I am, at Sony I’ve generated several billion dollars for Sony, several billon. They really thought that my mind is always on music and dancing. It usually is, but they never thought that this performer — myself — would out think them.

So, we can’t let them get away with what they’re trying to do, because now I’m a free agent… I just owe Sony one more album. It’s just a box set, really, with two new songs which I’ve written ages ago. Because for every album that I record, I write — literally, I’m telling you the truth — I write at least 120 songs every album I do. So I can do the box set, just giving them any two songs.

So I’m leaving Sony, a free agent,… owning half of Sony! I own half of Sony’s Publishing. I’m leaving them, and they’re very angry at me, because I just did good business, you know.

So the way they get revenge is to try and destroy my album! But I’ve always said, you know, art — good art — never dies. …Thank you.

And Tommy Mottola is a devil!

I’m not supposed to say what I’m going to say right now, but I have let you know this. Please don’t videotape what I am going to say, ok? Turn that off please. Do it, do it, I don’t mind! Tape it!

Mariah Carey, after divorcing Tommy, came to me crying. Crying. She was crying so badly I had to hold her. She said to me, “This is an evil man, and Michael, this man follows me.” He taps her phones, and he’s very, very evil. She doesn’t trust him. He’s a horrible human being. And we have to continue our drive until he is terminated. We can’t allow him to do this to great artists, we just can’t.

I just wanted to let you know, I appreciate everything you’ve done, you’ve been amazing.

You’re so loyal! Diana, everybody, Waldo, all the people here! I love you all. You’ve been amazing, I love you!

But still, but still, I promise you, the best is yet to come!

July 9, 2002 : Michael goes to Al Sharpton’s National Action Network headquaters in Harlem where he speaks again of a conspiracy in the record industry against black artists.

Michael’s speech against racism!
Sharpton’s National Action Network headquarters in the Harlem neighborhood of New York

… I remember a long time ago in Indiana, [when I was] like 6 or 7 years old, and I had a dream that I wanted to be a performer, you know, an entertainer and whenever I’d be asleep at night, and my mother would wake me up and say, ‘Michael, Michael, James Brown is on TV!’ I would jump out of bed and I’d just stare at the screen and I’d do every twist, every turn, every bump, every grind.

And it was Jackie Wilson; the list goes on and on you know, just phenomenal, unlimited, great talent.

It’s very sad to see that these artists really are penniless because they created so much joy for the world. And the system, beginning with the record companies, totally took advantage of them. And it’s not like they always say: ‘they built a big house,’ ‘they spent a lot of money,’ ‘they bought a lot of cars’ — that’s stupid, it’s an excuse. That’s nothing compared to what artists make.

And I just need you to know that this is very important, what we’re fighting for because I’m tired. I’m really, really tired of the manipulation.

I’m tired of how the press is manipulating everything that’s been happening in this situation. They do not tell the truth, they’re liars. And they manipulate our history books. Our history books are not true, it’s a lie. The history books are lies, you need to know that. You must know that.

All the forms of popular music from Jazz, to Hip Hop to Bebop to Soul, you know, to talking about the different dances from the Cake Walk to the Jitter Bug to the Charleston to Break Dancing — all these are forms of Black dancing!

What’s more important than giving people a sense of escapism, and escapism meaning entertainment? What would we be like without a song? What would we be like without a dance, joy and laughter and music?

These things are very important, but if we go to the bookstore down on the corner, you won’t see one Black person on the cover. You’ll see Elvis Presley. You’ll see the Rolling Stones. But where are the real pioneers who started it?

Otis Blackwell was a prolific phenomenal writer. He wrote some of the greatest Elvis Presley songs ever. And this was a Black man. He died penniless and no one knows about this man, that is, they didn’t write one book about him that I know of because I’ve searched all over the world. And I met his daughter today, and I was honored. To me it was on the same level of meeting the Queen of England when I met her.

But I’m here to speak for all injustice. You gotta remember something, the minute I started breaking the all-time record in record sales — I broke Elvis’s records, I broke the Beatles’ records — the minute [they] became the all-time best selling albums in the history of the Guinness Book of World Records, overnight they called me a freak, they called me a homosexual, they called me a child molester, they said I tried to bleach my skin. They did everything to try to turn the public against me. This is all a complete conspiracy, you have to know that.

I know my race. I just look in the mirror, I know I’m Black.

It’s time for a change. And let’s not leave this building and forget what has been said. Put it into your heart, put it into your subconscious mind, and let’s do something about it. We have to! It’s been a long, long time coming and a change has got to come. So let’s hold our torches high and get the respect that we deserve. I love you. I love you.

Please don’t put this in your heart today and forget it tomorrow. We will have not accomplished our purpose if that happens. This has got to stop! It’s got to stop, that’s why I’m here with the best to make sure that it stops. I love you folks. And remember: we’re all brothers and sisters, no matter what color we are.

August 29, 2002 : Michael goes to New York City to appear at the MTV Video Awards Ceremony, held at Radio City Music Hall, where Britney Spears presents him a birthday cake for his 44th birthday but Michael misundetstands and gives a thanking speech for the Artist of the Millenium award.

Britney Spears started with the following words:

I am thrilled to be here with you in New York on such a special night. And it’s more special because it just so happens to be someone special’s birthday. This is someone who’s inspired me and just about everyone in this room and the world. I consider him the artist of the millennium. He’s a true innovator who pioneered the true art of music video, broke down countless barriers and sold more records than any other artist along the way. So, happy birthday my friend, the King Of Pop.

Then Michael came on stage to the intro to Billie Jean and received a standing ovation from the audience. He hugged Britney Spears, took the award from the table with the cake and walked to the microphone for his acceptance speech:

Well…um…God Bless you. Um…I love you too [to the fans yelling at him]. Thank you very much, Britney Spears you’re wonderful. If… when I was a little boy in Indiana, if someone had told me… if someone had told me that one day I would be getting, as a musician, the ‘Artist Of The Millennium’ award I wouldn’t have believed it [laughs]. This is really amazing. I can’t believe it. Thank you so very much.

But there’s a couple of people I have to thank who made this possible [he reaches into his pocket for a piece of paper, and unfolds it]. First I’d like to thank God who makes all things possible. My mother, Joseph Jackson, Katherine Jackson, Trudy Green, Howard Koffman, the genius of John McClain, John Branca, Berry Gordy, Diana Ross, Gladys Knight, Quincy Jones, I love you. David Blaine your magic is real and I believe in you. And I’d like to thank… I think James Brown is a genius. And all the fans around the world, I love you. God bless you. Thank you.

November 21, 2002 : Michael attends the Bambi Awards with Wiesner & Bashir where Boris Becker presents him the Pop Artist Of The Millenium award. During the ceremony, the video for “What More Can I Give” is premiered.

Dear Dr. Burda, dear Dr. Turnhofer, ladies and gentlemen, I have many good reasons for my visit to Germany. Coming back to Berlin, so full of energy, it’s very special to me. Berlin, Ich liebe Dich [Berlin I love you].

September 11th has changed our world. Not long ago the Berlin wall came down, but recently new walls were built. In 1989 people in Germany said: “Wir sind ein Volk.” [We are one people].*

We are Germans, we are Armenians, French, Italians, Russians, Americans, Asians, Africans and many other nationalities.

We’re Christians, Jewish, Muslims, Hindus.

We’re black, we’re white.

We are a community of so many differences. So complex, and yet so simple.

We do not need to have war.

And to the children of Germany I want to say this: We need you. The world needs you. Please go for it. Go after your dreams. Go after your ideals. You can become everything you wanna become. Become an astronaut, become a scientist, a great doctor, and of course, become an artist. Maybe you get a Bambi award like me then.

I want you to know, I love Germany! You are very special in my heart, so much really. Always appreciate the gift of life. Be happy and have fun.

I love you.
Thank you very much.

The November 28, 2002 (No. 49) issue of German magazine, Bunte, featured an exclusive interview with Michael Jackson. Michael had been in Berlin beforehand to receive a special Bambi award. Below are excerpts from the interview which was conducted from his hotel room.

Michael speaking about wearing his new glasses in public at last week’s Bambi Awards:

That was embarrassing. I wore my new reading glasses for the first time in public.”

Michael explains how his children respond with having to have security accompany them everywhere and why people scream for them:

Paris is imitating me now. When I call ‘I love you’ to the fans she also calls ‘I love you,’ ‘I love you too from the bottom of my heart.'”

Michael discusses his children’s love for the ‘Spiderman’ movie:

They love the Spiderman clothes. They have seen the movie about a dozen times. It is terrible. I already know the movie by heart. I’m trying to vary the cinema program a bit by showing them Disney movies, but they always only want to see ‘Spiderman.'”

And Michael finally speaking out on his recent music shopping experience in Berlin:

Incredible. It doesn’t matter where I am, I am always followed. I would like to buy some more CDs in Berlin.”

December 9, 2002 : Live from Neverland, Chris Tucker presents Michael a special award to celebrate the 20th Anniversary of Thriller during the Billboard Awards.

Cedric: All right everybody, it’s that time. We’re about to take a trip to the Neverland Ranch with my friend, Chris Tucker-y’all.

Chris Tucker: Twenty years ago Michael Jackson was already a successful artist with seven number one hits to his name, four with the Jackson 5 and three on his own. But nobody was prepared for what would come next … [in Michael’s voice] ’cause this is Thriller, Thriller … [vocal sound effects]

Michael Jackson: [laughing]

Chris Tucker: Sorry. ‘Thriller’ stayed on the Billboard 200 for nearly two years, spending a record 37 weeks at number one. It won dozens of awards including a record 8 Grammies. He gave me one of them. It set another Billboard record when seven of his nine tracks reached the top ten and Michael became the first artist at Billboard chart history to simultaneously and single handily album charts both on black and pop charts. I messed that up, I know y’all seen it but that’s all right.

Chris Tucker: Quite simply, ‘Thriller’ still remains the biggest selling album in the history of the world, period. That’s why I’m thrilled to present this award to the King Of Pop, Michael Jackson.

Michael Jackson: Thank you so much. I’m very honored. I’m very happy. I thank all of the people that appreciate my work. I thank the Billboard Awards. I’ve always admired you. And to the fans around the world, I love you. I couldn’t be me without you. Thank to God. Chris Tucker your my favorite.

Chris Tucker: Could I keep the award for a couple days?

Michael Jackson: Yeah, we gotta share it.

Chris Tucker: At my house?

Michael Jackson: No, we have to share it.

Chris Tucker: Where can I stay at Neverland?

Michael Jackson: Anywhere you wanna stay.

Chris Tucker: All right, I’m in cabin three.

Michael Jackson: [laughing] Okay. Thank you so much!

Chris Tucker: Thanks y’all.

Cedric: Hey, what’s up y’all? They told me they still have Michael Jackson on the wire. Where Mike at? What’s up, Michael?

Michael Jackson: I’m here.

Cedric: Hey what’s up, Michael?

Michael Jackson: Hey, how are you?

Cedric: That’s the King right there, bro. How you doin’ man? Mike, I just wanna ask a question that’s been on everybody’s mind I’m sure, I know it’s on mine. Mike, where’s Bubbles at Mike? How the monkey doin’? Ain’t nobody heard from the monkey in a while Mike. How the monkey doin’ Mike?

Michael Jackson: [laughing] He’s at Chris Tucker’s house.

Cedric: Chris Tucker got the monkey. Man, right on man.

Chris Tucker: What’s up brother?

Michael Jackson: I’m a big fan of yours by the way.

Cedric: Right on Mike, big fan here too Mike. I know all the songs.

Chris Tucker: [talking like Michael] Me too Cedric, I love you!

Cedric: You know this maaaaaaan.

Michael Jackson: [laughing quietly] You know this man.

Cedric: Right on, Chris Tucker and Michael Jackson, the new ‘Rush Hour’.

Chris Tucker: Let’s do it! Forget Jackie!!

Michael Jackson: [laughing]

December 23, 2002 : Michael makes a Christmas televised message via The German channel ZDF to his fans and the world asking us to not only love but to care for those in need and continue to help him in his efforts to HEAL THE WORLD for children.

In December 2002, Michael Jackson recorded a Christmas message and sent it to German magazine ‘Bunte’.

Good evening children and Merry Christmas,

When I create music I always hope that my music will give joy to many people. If that happens I am very happy. Giving joy makes one happy. Unfortunately there are many children that are not happy. In Germany and in other countries.

During Christmas this is especially hard for those children because it is on Christmas when they see what they miss. For some it may be just a small present, for some it may be a warm meal, for some it may be a family, for some it may be just a little bit of love.

That is why I need you! I need your help. Let us work together and help those children. Let us reach out to those who are alone – Let us all tell them: “You are not alone”.

This year it is I, only I speaking to you, children in Germany and sending you a few little gifts. If you help me, then next year, we will do the same but in many more countries. We will speak together – maybe we will sing together – and we will give gifts together. Let us think big. Let us find many people to join our effort.

Here and all over Europe and then all over the world. We can do it! I know we can do it!

To all of the grown ups I like to say this: To us, so many things seem important. Sometimes, we think we are important. We are not important. Nothing is more important than our children! They are the future. They can heal the world. It is our obligation to be there for them. To advise them. To motivate them. To help them and to love them. Let us encourage them to go for their dreams. And let us as parents, friends and relatives help them to have good dreams.

I look forward to the new year, to working with you children and to create an organization that will help other children.

I promise, I promise you, if you come along, it will make you feel good and it will be so much fun!

Merry Christmas! I love you from the bottom of my heart!

Thank you so much!”

June 13, 2003 : For the first time, Michael takes on the role of interviewer for the August 2003 edition of Interview Magazine. He interviews producer Pharrell Williams (of The Neptunes) in a telephone conversation.

Pharrell Williams: Music’s Hottest Hitmaker Talks To The Thriller
(August 2003)

Michael Jackson: Hello?

Pharell Williams: Hello! How are you, man?

MJ: You must forgive me, but Gregory Peck, who died yesterday, was a very dear friend of mine, and I’ve been helping his wife prepare the memorial and all those things. So please forgive me for being late with this call.

PW: No, listen, man, I can’t believe I’m on the phone with you.

MJ: Oh, God bless you.

PW: Thank you, sir. You too.

MJ: Thank you. So, I’m interviewing you, right? And I think it’s seven questions, or something like that?

PW: Sure. Whatever you like.

MJ: Okay. What would you say inspires you in your music? What is it that inspires you to create your music?

PW: It’s a feeling. You treat the air as a canvas and the paint is the chords that come through your fingers, out of the keyboard. So when I’m playing, I’m sort of painting a feeling in the air. I know that might sound corny, but

MJ: -No. No, that’s a perfect analogy.

PW: And when you know it’s done, you know it’s done. It’s like painting or sculpting. When you let it go it’s because you know that it’s finished. It’s completed. And vice versa-it tells you, “Hey, I’m not done.”

MJ: Yeah. And it refuses to let you sleep until it’s finished.

PW: That’s right.

MJ: Yeah, I go through the same thing. [laughs] And what do you think of the music today-are you into the new sounds that are being created and the direction that music is going?

PW: Well, personally, I kind of feel like I’m taking notes from people like yourself and Stevie [Wonder] and Donny [Hathaway], and just sort of doing what feels right.

MJ: Right.

PW: You know, like when everyone was going one way, you went Off the Wall [1979].

MJ: Right, [laughs]

PW: And when everyone else was going another way, you went Thriller [1982]. You just did it your way. And I’m taking notes from people like yourself, like not being afraid to listen to your feelings and turn your aspirations and ambitions into material. Making it happen, making it materialize.

MJ: That’s beautiful. That’s lovely. You said that very well. I wanted to ask you-do you feel, the way I do, that it’s almost like a pregnancy, giving birth? Writing a song is like having a child, and once the song is finished, it’s like letting the child into the world. Do you ever feel like that, like it’s hard to let go?

PW: You know what? I did an interview the other day to present a video, and I was afraid to let it go. That was for a video, but the video to me is like the second part of the song because it is the interpretation given in a visual perspective. So, yes, I completely feel that way. And it’s like sometimes if you play something to people and they don’t get it, it’s kind of like your child who’s done something and everyone is pointing fingers and you’re like, “Wait! This is my kid!” Now, I’m not a father, but I imagine that’s the way it would be-at least that’s how I feel about my songs.

MJ: Right. Now the different forms of music-popular-culture music-that the black race has been responsible for bringing in, ushering in, from jazz to pop to rock ‘n’ roll to hiphop, you name it, what do you think that is all about? Is it given from God?

PW: I think all music is a gift from God. And-[a fan interrupts] Michael, can you hold on for one second? [Williams talks to fan for a few seconds, then resumes talking to Jackson] Sorry.

MJ: [laughs] Blues, rock ‘n’ roll, all the different forms of popular-cultural music-like rock ‘n’ roll was invented by Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Domino.

PW: Absolutely.

MJ: Even the dances from the cakewalk to the Charleston, the popping, the breaking, the locking. Don’t you think they’re a gift from God?

PW: Absolutely. God gave us that gift when he gave us the gift of interpretation. I mean, when you write your lyrics, you’re writing to someone, or to the world. When you’re playing, you’re playing something for the world to hear. When you’re dancing, you’re dancing for people to see. It’s just a form of expression. And then there are times when you might be a little more introverted about it, when you’re dancing, writing, or playing for yourself, and you have no idea how amazing what you’re doing looks, sounds, or feels, until somebody else tells you, or until you record it and go back and look at it.

MJ: That’s right. Who are some of the older artists-not the artists on the radio today who inspired you when you were younger? Like the artists your father listened to, did you learn anything from those artists?

PW: Absolutely. The Isley Brothers.

MJ: Yeah, me too. I love the Isley Brothers. And I love Sly and the Family Stone.

PW: Donny [Hathaway], Stevie [Wonder] . . .

MJ: You like all the people I like. [laughs]

PW: Those chord changes. They take you away.

MJ: Beautiful, beautiful. Okay, well, where are you? In New York?

PW: I’m in Virginia Beach, Virginia, sir.

MJ: Virginia! Oh, beautiful. Will you give my love to Virginia?

PW: Yes. Thank you.

MJ: And your mother and your parents? Because God has blessed you with special gifts.

PW: Thank you, sir. And I just want to say something, and I don’t know if you want to hear this, but I just have to say it because it’s on my heart. But people bother you

MJ: -Yeah.

PW: -Because they love you. That’s the only reason why. When you do something that people don’t necessarily understand, they’re going to make it into a bigger problem than they would for anybody else because you’re one of the most amazing talents that’s ever lived. You’ve accomplished and achieved more in this century than most any other men.

MJ: Well, thank you very much. That’s very kind of you.

PW: What you do is so amazing. When you are 100 years old, and they’re still making up things about what you’ve done to this and what you’ve done to that on your body-please believe me, if you decided you wanted to dip your whole body in chrome, you are so amazing that the world, no matter what they say, is going to be right there to see it. And that is because of what you have achieved in the music world, and in changing people’s lives. People are having children to your songs. You’ve affected the world.

MJ: Thank you very much. It’s like the bigger the star, the bigger the target. You know when you’re-and I’m not being a braggadocio or anything like that-but you know you’re on top when they start throwing arrows at you. Even Jesus was crucified. People who bring light to the world, from Mahatma Gandhi to Martin Luther King to Jesus Christ, even myself. And my motto has been Heal the World, We are the World, Earth Song, Save Our Children, Help Our Planet. And people want to persecute me for it, but it never hurts, because the fan base becomes stronger. And the more you hit something hard, the more hardened it becomes-the stronger it becomes. And that’s what’s happened: I’m resilient. I have rhinoceros skin. Nothing can hurt me. Nothing.

PW: Well, that’s precisely my point. I just want to let you know you’re amazing, man. What you do to music, what you’ve done to music, from “Billie Jean” to “That’s What You Get (For Being Polite)”-[sings “That’s what you get for being polite” ].

MJ: Oh, you know that one? [laughs]

PW: [sings “Jack still sits all alone”]

MJ: Boy, you know all those ones.

PW: When you do that, you do that to the world, [resumes singing “Jack still sits all alone”]

MJ: [hums a guitar riff]

PW: If I never work with you, just know that you are unstoppable. That’s why I said, when you’re 100 years old and you decide to dip your entire body in chrome, as much as they say things-and I don’t care what they say about you, sir-they’re going to be right there to see it.

MJ: There’s a lot of jealousy there. I love all races, I love all people, but sometimes there’s a devil in people, and they get jealous. Every time there’s a luminary that goes beyond the heights of his field of endeavor, people tend to get jealous and try to bring him down. But they can’t with me because I’m very, very, very strong, [laughs] They don’t know that, though.

PW: They know! Please believe me, they know!

MJ: Anybody else would’ve cracked by now; they can’t crack me. I’m very strong.

PW: Of course. They couldn’t crack you when you were 10, because you were destroying grown men doing what you did with your voice and your talent. And when you were 20, you were outdoing people that had been doing it for 20 or 30 years. And nowadays they’re still waiting to see where you’re at. They want to see your kids, they want to see your world. You’re amazing, and I just wanted to tell you that, man. And I hope that this all gets printed because it’s very important to me. I hope that I can be half as dope as you one day.

MJ: Oh, God bless you. You’re wonderful, too. Thank you so much.

PW: Thank you, man.

MJ: Have a lovely day.

PW: You too, sir.

MJ: Thank you. Bye.

PW: Bye.